Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Hi and welcome to beyond the Chair.
[00:00:04] I am your host, Sonia Anderson Hale, and I have been out of commission for like a month and I had some stuff that I had been recording and then completely lost my voice.
[00:00:17] So the holidays, they hit hard and I hadn't had anything recorded. So I was about. I was gone for about two weeks because the holidays. And then right after the holidays, I.
[00:00:29] I had been working and just got super sick and lost my voice. I sounded like Isma from Emperor's New Groove.
[00:00:42] And I have a recording of my voice I like.
[00:00:46] Sorry. I sent a voice memo to a friend and I was like, is this my voice? And I'll. Maybe I'll post that at some point in time because it was pretty funny.
[00:00:56] But yeah, I am sorry that I haven't recorded in a while. I literally could not do it. It would sound so terrible. And even now it's kind of hard to talk, like, for a consistent amount of time. Like, I still have to, like, work on my breathing and not coughing. I'm gonna do it again.
[00:01:16] It's awful. It's awful. It's been so annoying and, like, this is the best I've been.
[00:01:21] So anyway, I hope everybody's staying healthy and safe and not getting what I got because it was very annoying and took me out of commission for a while with working with people as well. So just not fun all around.
[00:01:38] And in all honesty, I had planned on posting up a recording that I wanted to streamline and finish. And it'll be about anxiety and. And that's probably coming.
[00:01:50] It'll be coming. I just don't know exactly when, but I decided that I needed to record because it's been so long. But now we unfortunately are in a new atmosphere. There's a new atmosphere here in the States, and I don't know where you're listening from, but the atmosphere is definitely different than it was even before the holidays. And so I felt like it was important to come here and kind of talk that out.
[00:02:18] And so today we're going to be talking about social justice.
[00:02:21] And I am going to try. This is political, but I'm going to try and be as like, like, neutral as I possibly can to help individuals understand, like, why it is that what our political thoughts and feelings are right now, if they don't match what is happening kind of across the nation, then we are doing a disservice to our clients.
[00:02:54] That's kind of my thought process here.
[00:02:57] And then obviously, for those of you that already kind of are on board with, like, the unrest and the disappointment this episode is for you as well.
[00:03:08] But. But I am going to be starting out with those who feel like what is happening is justified.
[00:03:16] So I'm going to start by reading from the American Counseling Association's Code of Ethics. And I know that the Social Work Code of Ethics is very similar to this, if not exactly the same.
[00:03:28] Counseling is a professional relationship that empowers diverse individuals, families and groups to accomplish mental health, wellness, education and career goals.
[00:03:39] Professional values are an important way of living out an ethical commitment.
[00:03:45] Today we're only going to look at three of those core values.
[00:03:49] Number one is enhancing human development throughout the lifespan two, honoring diversity and embracing a multicultural approach in support of the worth, dignity, potential and uniqueness of people within their social and cultural contexts and three, promoting social justice.
[00:04:11] As counselors, we have a responsibility to show up fully for our clients, especially when they're experiencing harm or injustice.
[00:04:19] When what's happening in the world feels wrong or unsafe to them.
[00:04:23] That's when our presence, empathy and guidance are most crucial.
[00:04:28] And here's one of the most inconvenient truths about being a counselor. When a client expresses support for a system or an action that can be harmful or oppressive, our job is not to condone or debate, it's to understand their perspective while still maintaining ethical, client centered care.
[00:04:47] And in both cases, the focus is on the client's experience and well being, not our personal agreement with their beliefs, nor our disagreement with their beliefs.
[00:04:58] For the focus of this episode, I want to explain what's been happening, what clients are seeing, what our citizens are experiencing in Minnesota. And I say this as a person with family living in Minnesota.
[00:05:11] As of January 2026, ICE and federal agents have been deployed heavily in Minneapolis and the surrounding areas.
[00:05:18] Enforcement operations have included raids, arrests and taking control of some businesses in the area.
[00:05:25] Protests have been happening regularly in response to federal actions.
[00:05:30] Multiple people, including US Citizens, have been killed during enforcement operations.
[00:05:37] Families and children have been caught up in enforcement activity.
[00:05:41] Multiple children, including toddlers and school age kids, have been detained with their parents by immigration agents.
[00:05:51] Schools and teachers are reporting that kids are feeling fearful, anxious and traumatized by the presence of the federal agents and the arrests that are happening within their community.
[00:06:03] I want to be clear this isn't a pick and choose situation.
[00:06:07] Every part of what's happening, from federal enforcement actions to clashes with protesters to the trauma being experienced by children and families, is harmful.
[00:06:18] Families are living in fear.
[00:06:21] Kids are scared to go to school.
[00:06:23] Community members are grieving deaths that could have been prevented as counselors we can't ignore that reality.
[00:06:31] Even if you think these enforcement actions are justified, that doesn't change the fact that families are terrified, kids are traumatized, and people's lives are being disrupted.
[00:06:43] As counselors and all opinions are irrelevant when someone's experiencing harm, we must show up fully, listen and provide support.
[00:06:54] Ethics is not optional.
[00:06:58] I'm not the type of person that likes to watch the news.
[00:07:02] I never have been.
[00:07:04] I used to watch the news when I would go and visit my grandma when I was eight. I mean, I would visit her all the time. But I remember specifically around the time that I was eight, we sat down to watch the news because she liked to watch it religiously at like 5pm and I remember seeing this newscaster talking about this really horrible thing that had happened somewhere nearby.
[00:07:28] And I believe a bunch of people lost their lives. Maybe it was a fire.
[00:07:32] And then just on a dime, the woman changed her com, her affect completely changed, and she started smiling and was talking like in lighter news.
[00:07:44] The kids at the basketball game had a lot of fun.
[00:07:49] And at that time, I just realized that, like, this is very strange to me.
[00:07:56] And it seems like they are trying to just play at our heartstrings and make us upset.
[00:08:04] And that's a pretty profound thing to recognize when you're eight.
[00:08:08] And I kind of stood by the idea that I didn't really enjoy watching the news. It's not that I didn't want to know what was going on. I just didn't want people to tell me in such a way, maybe that it needed space.
[00:08:24] Those two things shouldn't have been put together. I'm not really sure.
[00:08:29] But as I got into this field, my husband informed me that I shouldn't read the news or watch the news because he was thinking that it would be bad for my mental health if I knew something happened to somebody that I knew, like a client.
[00:08:43] And I thought that that was very sage advice. And I stuck with that, and I have stuck with that.
[00:08:49] I don't watch typical normal news. I get my news from different sources, typically online.
[00:08:58] Try and figure out exactly what it is that's going on from different perspectives so that I can be aware, so I know what my clients are going through, what my clients are experiencing.
[00:09:10] Because honestly, I don't know that I would want to know if I didn't need to. And I think we're in an atmosphere right now where we need to know what's going on, and we do need to look at different news sources so we understand what people are consuming and also understand really what. What is happening, because we are in a really different time and situation. And yes, history does repeat itself, but this is unprecedented. We are able to see in real time things that happen because people record it with their phones.
[00:09:50] And I think for those who don't believe what they're seeing and don't believe what's being recorded, I really don't know how to get you on board.
[00:10:03] I.
[00:10:04] I don't know how more obvious it could be, how unfair and unkind and terrifying it is, other than to just say it out loud.
[00:10:17] As a therapist who's watching and analyzing and really scrutinizing what's going on, this is terrible.
[00:10:30] Our nation is so much better than what's happening.
[00:10:34] And I truly implore you to try and see it.
[00:10:40] I completely understand if it's scary. We're all scared.
[00:10:45] But those of us that are the loudest, it's because we see what's happening and we understand that it's not okay.
[00:10:55] And my hope is that some of you that are listening, if you weren't on board before, I hope you are now.
[00:11:03] Because the reality is, is that these are the people that we work with.
[00:11:07] These are our people.
[00:11:11] And in reality, being an illegal citizen means that very likely you left something horrible behind and that you didn't go about it the best way possible.
[00:11:27] But does that mean that you shouldn't have human rights?
[00:11:31] Does that mean that you shouldn't have due process?
[00:11:34] Does that mean that you should be terrified here, too?
[00:11:39] I just don't understand why we can't be better than that.
[00:11:43] This land is free.
[00:11:47] This land is supposed to be Welcoming the United States Statue of Liberty is a welcome sign to those who are suffering.
[00:11:59] Bring me your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
[00:12:04] I don't know. Does that mean nothing now?
[00:12:08] Maybe. Put a different way, I don't know how we put value on some people's lives and not on others.
[00:12:17] As therapists, I worked exclusively with Native Americans for over three years.
[00:12:24] And there's a saying that no one can be illegal on stolen land.
[00:12:30] And I think that that's an absolutely beautiful sentiment.
[00:12:34] It's also an inconvenient truth in that this land was taken.
[00:12:42] But the reality is, is that how do we sit here and say that there are people that don't belong here because they're here illegally, when we have immigrants that came to this land and colonized it?
[00:12:59] It's okay because it's our history, but it's not okay because people are oppressed in different places and want to Come to the land of the free and the home of the brave.
[00:13:10] I just fail to understand the logic.
[00:13:14] And I recognize that I used the term illegal citizen before, but I use that term because that's a term that I know that those who do not support or those who do support what's happening, that's the term that they use.
[00:13:27] But realistically, they're people.
[00:13:30] They're people that are looking for something better, or they were people that were looking for something better, or maybe opportunity knocked.
[00:13:40] But the reality also is, is that the amount of people that cause issues and harm to United States citizens is vastly lower than actual citizens of the United States.
[00:13:56] That's statistically known.
[00:13:59] You can look that up.
[00:14:01] I think that that's probably as much as I can do to try and get those who don't understand to understand.
[00:14:10] There's only so much that we can talk about this.
[00:14:15] So hopefully you maybe see it a little bit differently now.
[00:14:20] But for those of you who have known that this is an injustice, or those of you that have woken up to the fact that it is, and you're feeling the heavy and you're confused about what to do and how to help and how to show up for your clients, this second part is for you.
[00:14:37] My thought is, is that while we are seeing terrible things happen and it is very scary, I do think that we still have to show up for our clients.
[00:14:49] And I would argue that clients that aren't bringing these problems specifically to us are the ones that are kind of giving us a little bit of reprieve from what it is that we're feeling. And we should go with that.
[00:15:01] Like, really lean into the work that we do. And helping clients where they're at can also help us to regulate and remember that this isn't just the only problem out there.
[00:15:14] And while that might seem depressing, it's actually very, very nice because we know that that's the steady. We know that there will consistently be work that has to be done and that this thing that's happening or being presented in front of us might be, quote, unquote, menial in. In light of everything else that's going on. But just stay with that because you're allowed to be able to have a break from all of these things that are going on.
[00:15:43] And obviously, like, what our clients are bringing to us isn't menial anyway.
[00:15:49] So once again, I say lean into it.
[00:15:53] I recently saw on a Facebook post of some group that I'm a part of where somebody was talking about, what do we do if people are striking, like, what do we do if there's a big, massive strike?
[00:16:13] And I think that the answer is kind of different, dependent on where you work. But I also kind of lean into the idea that, realistically, we're needed now more than ever.
[00:16:26] And so to strike, while it does give information to the powers that be, might not necessarily be the best thing for our client's mental health.
[00:16:41] So I would just encourage you to take that into consideration. Originally, what I had thought was, like, I absolutely wouldn't because I have a private practice, and so I want to be able to consistently show up for my clients. But then when I took a step back and I thought about it and I was like, well, if I was in community mental health, I feel like I would still feel the same way.
[00:17:01] I would have clients that needed me, and they needed me to show up, and they needed me to be that consistent, because that's what the expectation is when things are this difficult and this scary and this hard. That's what we're here for, right? We're here to help.
[00:17:18] And again, they might be coming in with something that's completely not related to what's going on, but at the same time, we still need to be there consistent and helping.
[00:17:26] So my thought was that if there is a mass strike, that it's highly likely that we probably shouldn't go along with it.
[00:17:36] I'm not telling you what to do politically. If you feel that in your soul that this is what you need to do, by all means do it.
[00:17:45] But I'm saying from my perspective, when looking only at the lens of counseling and the counseling field, I think it would be a disservice to our clients.
[00:17:55] So then what can we do?
[00:17:57] First off, I've already said we can show up for our clients, but we can also try and figure out how to help people in the government arena. We have every capability of calling our representatives and talking and seeing if there's something that we can do to help, or even just calling and saying, hey, I want you to not support this bill, whatever the bill is, if it's specific to something that seems like it could be helpful. Right? So there's a bill coming up on the 30th that says whether or not they're going to fund or add more funds to ice, and it's already been passed, as far as I understand, in Congress, and so now it's at the Senate, so we can call our senators and say, I don't believe that it's appropriate to continue to fund ICE the way that it's operating.
[00:18:51] That is completely your prerogative. And there are many, many, many people talking about how to do this. You can even Type it into ChatGPT and ask ChatGPT who's my representative and how do I contact them.
[00:19:03] But taking that even further, I remember taking a training at some point in time where we were told, and I don't remember who was doing the training. It might have been somebody from the aca, but they were talking about how there is an expectation that most of us don't know about, that the ACA and other counseling programs believe that we will work within government and that we will help bring change.
[00:19:31] So if you feel so inclined to start running for government, you can do that too, right? We have so many, so many things available to us that we can do. We do not need to sit here and feel like there's nothing we can do.
[00:19:48] You can also protest. That is your right.
[00:19:51] You can do that as well.
[00:19:53] And obviously, you have to just be aware of what some of the risks are to doing that. And as long as you are okay with taking those risks, then you can do that as well.
[00:20:04] You have freedom.
[00:20:06] We have freedom. We are still free.
[00:20:10] And finally, and most importantly, you can vote.
[00:20:14] You can vote and vote and vote and vote.
[00:20:18] My biggest suggestion to you is to recognize where you can do things, what it is that you can do, what it is that's in your capacity. And then also just remembering that showing up for our clients is a major part of this. So if that is all that you do, that's perfectly fine, too.
[00:20:38] You're a baller. We are all ballers. Like, we're doing great work in unprecedented times once again.
[00:20:48] So I encourage you to just take a minute also to pat yourself on the back and recognize that you're dope and I'm dope, and everybody else that does this is dope. And I think we are going to make it through this.
[00:21:03] It's just.
[00:21:05] It's. It's hard to see it right now.
[00:21:08] And so my heart goes to you, and I hope that you stay happy and healthy, as I've said before, and fight as much as you feel is necessary.
[00:21:23] Fight in the way that you feel is appropriate, and just take solace in the fact that you do really good work.
