Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hi and welcome to beyond the Chair, the therapist Companion. I'm your host, Sonja Anderson Hale and I have been on hiatus for quite a bit of time and I don't know, I guess I got like a hair up my butt today to try and start talking about what's been going on and just kind of fill people in and update them.
I recorded a thing quite a while ago, actually probably like 3ish months into my hiatus to kind of explain what was going on, which I will be posting up. That's what this episode is going to be. But then I needed distance from what I recorded before I was ready to actually put it out there in the ether or in the world. But I think that, well, so I wasn't tremendously sure that I even wanted to put it out or share it. I felt like it's really very personal, which it is.
And, you know, I don't know, I just wasn't really sure anybody would want to hear it. And hopefully maybe it'll reach somebody that does need to hear it just to know that we as therapists do have struggles. And I guess I'll maybe trigger warning it that it's really not happy stuff the that I'm talking about.
And. Yeah, well, tonight talked to my friend Mary, who is going to be the next or one of the guests on the podcast. We had recorded an episode before I went on hiatus and it's a really good episode. I just have to get it put together and get my feet back in the water, if you will, and kind of get myself back into the routine of doing recordings and stuff. So I'm gonna be kind and gentle to myself that like, I'm not putting any kind of strict timeline on myself. It will be more strict than I've been. I will be putting out more stuff, but, you know, is weekly within my capacity right now, I'm not sure, but we'll see. You know, I can't. I can't project the future. You can't predict the future? No clue. I do think that after having talked to Mary about it and being like, you know, I don't think that anyone's going to want to hear this or that it's too personal or something.
[00:02:26] Speaker B: She was like, sonia, I really think
[00:02:28] Speaker A: that people really do want to hear that we struggle and that there are things that happen in our lives as therapists that can knock us off our axis.
And we're in a field that kind of teaches clients that, but doesn't necessarily teach us that. And this field doesn't teach you how to navigate those types of situations. And I have quite a few that had come up in like, like from like 2019 on. Just kind of like a barrage of things that had gone on and just kept going and functioning and doing what I needed to do and show up the way that I needed to show up. And in all honesty, I kind of my job as a fortress away from my shit. Like, this is awesome that I don't have to think about my stuff. I literally can't even think about my stuff. Right. I have to think about my clients and what's going on with them and be fully present. So it helped me in compartmentalizing what was going on by literally doing my job.
And I'm appreciative of that.
I just also think that all these things kind of came to a head at the one year anniversary of the loss of my mom. And I didn't really know, you know, I've never, I've never lost my mom before. So I didn't know what to expect at a year's time or that being a therapist when you lose somebody is different than when you're a layman who has a different job, who gets to feel your feelings. When you feel your feelings, you know, you get to walk away and be overwhelmed or people know things that are going on with you. Like literally nobody knew what I was going through as far as clients go, because that, like, how would they, you know, like, I'm not talking about my stuff.
So I think that the nature of our job kind of forces us to put up a wall or a veil that things are okay, which isn't hard necessarily. I mean, sometimes, obviously it can be hard to do if you're really in your feels. But that compartmentalization, I don't know, I think it's just really strong and powerful and wonderful.
But for me, it was like a clusterfuck of things were going on at the one year anniversary of my mom's death. And it just all came to a head and things needed to change for me and I needed to recognize that this was a lot harder than I was giving myself credit.
And you know, you might be listening and thinking like, oh, therapy can help with that, like to an extent. But then that's insinuating that I didn't go to therapy about this stuff and I did.
So it's just there's no perfect solution and it's an imperfect thing that's happening. And I guess it's a very human thing that's happened.
And it really threw me for a Loop. And like I say, I recorded an episode for all of you to kind of explain what was going on with me. It's very sad and I'm not in that same headspace right now. I can say that I think that
[00:06:00] Speaker B: like, I'm finally at a point where
[00:06:02] Speaker A: I can send this out and have people listen to it and feel like I'm not bearing my soul or something.
I'm not really sure what my problem was before, but I think it was probably just. I just didn't want to really still even recognize that it was real. And you know, there are still times sometimes when I delude myself that my mom's still here or I.
[00:06:32] Speaker C: Oh, okay. So I went to my parents house
[00:06:36] Speaker A: recently and my brother had been borrowing my mom's car for quite some time.
And I was driving up to, to go see my dad because I take my kid to go see my dad pretty often.
And I drive up onto the driveway and I see my mom's car and I was like, oh, my mom's here.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: But she wasn't.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: And like for a millisecond it felt really good. And then immediately it was like, wow, it's just amazing the little tiny things
[00:07:07] Speaker B: that can hit you and you don't
[00:07:10] Speaker A: even realize it, you know. And then I think when we're operating as therapists and we're just thinking about other people, then, at least for me, then I'm not necessarily thinking about myself and my stuff.
When I'm not actively working with people, I'm just like, you know, go to the next day, go to the next day, go to the next day.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: And I think I had been doing
[00:07:33] Speaker A: that for a year and I hadn't gone and seen her plot.
I was avoiding that as well.
So there was just a lot of things that I was avoiding that I
[00:07:46] Speaker B: could no longer avoid.
[00:07:47] Speaker A: When it came up to a year, and that was in April, and so it was like Easter Sunday, I believe that we went to go and visit my mom.
And I think that that was like the one year anniversary too of her death. I'm pretty sure those two things happened
[00:08:03] Speaker C: at the same time, if I remember this correctly.
[00:08:06] Speaker A: And it was a lot, but also like the minute that we got to my mom's plot, everything just kind of felt a lot lighter.
So if anybody's listening and thinking, you know, like, you've been in the same position or you don't really know what to do or whatever, I would say that that was really cathartic and helpful and I had been avoiding it for
[00:08:31] Speaker B: a very Long time.
[00:08:32] Speaker A: So if that's any. Anything to help any of you out that like, yeah, go do a thing that you've been avoiding because you thought it would make make you sad. Cuz maybe the thing you've been avoiding is actually the thing you need to do.
And so I'll tell you this little story and then I'll let you hear the stupid sad thing that I recorded. It's not stupid, but the sad thing that I recorded. And then, yeah, I guess you'll know the updates of.
Well, technically you'll know about my mom because that's what that episode is is just kind of like, this is my mom and what life was like for her those last couple of years.
But anyway, okay, so we go to visit my mom and my kid passes out in the backseat of the car. So we have to leave him in there with the air conditioner running at
[00:09:24] Speaker B: the graveyard because to wake him up
[00:09:26] Speaker A: would have been not that fun.
So it's my husband, my dad and my brother and I were all walking over to my mom's plot and like I say, I haven't been since her funeral, so I was pretty anxious about
[00:09:42] Speaker B: what I was going to see.
[00:09:44] Speaker A: Which is kind of weird because like, it's not like I've never been to a graveyard before. But we go up to this graveyard and I know the graveyard well. I used to live by it. Actually, my maps thing. Every time my husband and I would take an Uber back to our place, it would literally say that we lived in the graveyard. My husband would have to be like, so we don't live here. We actually live a street over and for whatever reason the maps always brings us here. So I don't know, maybe it was like divine intervention being like, someday you're going to avoid this place, so I'm forcing you to come here. But my grandma is also buried at that graveyard. So I've been there before and lived
[00:10:27] Speaker B: by it, like I say.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: And anyway, so we're walking down and
[00:10:31] Speaker B: we're like saying hi to the people that are there.
[00:10:35] Speaker A: And we get up to the plot and my mom's plot looks really nice and her area is very pretty and we left some flowers for her. I actually buried her with some flowers, which it was flower seeds and it had been from my baby shower.
[00:10:50] Speaker C: I had had flower seeds at the
[00:10:52] Speaker A: baby shower and I brought those with me for her because I was like, I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to do this, but I don't really care.
Like, my mom was a horticulturist she loved plants. Had, like, the greenest thumb, and I have the blackest thumb. So, like, I kill plants. I don't want to, but I do. But I feel like she could bring plants back to life.
Like, you're like, a magician. I don't even know.
So, anyway, while there, we see this guy who's next to my mom, this guy's plot. He's been there for, like, a hundred years or something like that, right? And we kind of talk to both the plots next to her and, like, hey, hope you guys are chilling and having fun or whatever it is that you're doing. And then we look at this other plot that's right next to her, and it has literally no grass growing in the.
In this, like, rectangle shape that I assume is the size of the casket. And then it has this hole that's on the side of the tombstone that looks like someone could literally come out of it and do stuff.
So we decided that at night, he pulls out all of his own grass because he hates grass. And it is the only plot in the entire establishment that has no grass growing. It's really bizarre, but it was fun to be like, yeah, at night, he comes out, pulls out the grass because he got a vendetta against grass for whatever reason. That makes us feel better, too, about, like, I don't know, you're living by somebody who's pretty stubborn, and we're all pretty stubborn, so that works, like, cool.
But, yeah, that was the experience. And like, I say, I'm gonna have you guys listen to the other thing that I recorded, and hopefully this will start the ball rolling of me recording again.
Actually looked up something recently to see just, like, if there was any kind of blurb or update about me, you know, I don't know if AI would be like, oh, Sonia just kind of dipped off the face of the earth or whatever. But AI, AI was so nice. AI was like, Sonia has taken in a brief hiatus from recording, and this is very typical for this type of podcast. Like, they can have seasons, and so she's probably in a season break. And I was like, I'm not, but that was really sweet of you. And, I mean, I guess technically I was in a season break. I just didn't talk about it, and I didn't admit it to myself. And now I'm like, I guess that's what that was.
It was more of a recoup. Recuperate and actually, like, refocus my life because, like, finances have been a little bit rough or had. Well, had been a little bit rough. So that was another thing that was going on that just kind of needed to get fixed and figured out. And so now I'm got my feet down on the ground a bit more and hopefully we'll be able to be more attentive to the podcast, which would be great because I do enjoy doing it. And then for those of you that have still been listening or recently been finding the podcast, like, that's super dope and awesome and thank you so much for listening. I really do appreciate it. I, I watch those levels even though I haven't been able to put anything out. Like, I watch what's going on and I'm like, this is cool that people are still finding it. And they're probably like, why did this girl just like dip off the side of the earth? And so this is why I dipped off the side of the earth, friends.
And you will get to hear it and know that therapists are human.
Us therapists were human.
And it was a rough time.
It was a really rough time.
[00:14:49] Speaker B: I have been gone for a while and even thinking about recording this made me feel a little bit teary eyed.
So basically I didn't realize how much a year after losing my mom, like, I didn't realize how much that anniversary was going to affect me. An episode just, that's kind of about my mom and in honor of my mom.
And that probably is going to be kind of hard.
[00:15:25] Speaker A: In 2019,
[00:15:29] Speaker B: my mom and I, we went to lunch, which we did a lot.
And while we were there, my mom told me that she had gone to the doctor and the doctor had told her that some of her blood panels were really high, like in the thousands or something like that. And she said, but the good thing is, is that it's not cancer.
And we both, like, breathed a sigh of relief.
And it was just like a nice time. It was a nice moment and a fairly nice memory, even though it's sad because then probably about a week later, gone to visit somebody on the psych unit.
And I was then in my car getting ready to drive back to work, and I got a call from my mom and she informed me that what the doctor had said wasn't cancer, was cancer.
So my mom had stage four lung cancer.
And I remember her talking about remission or cure.
And I remember getting off the phone and looking up the prognosis.
And stage four lung cancer is not a remitable
[00:17:03] Speaker C: illness.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: The life expectancy is about five years with treatment.
And, you know, obviously those treatments are improving. And so people are living a little bit longer. But I had kind of prepared myself for that five years. And I think that I just kind of set that in my head. So then I realized that I needed something that was going to get my mind off of it. I couldn't think about it all the time. I couldn't think about her treatment all the time. I couldn't worry about her all the time. So I decided to join or to start the PhD program because I just wanted something that would get my mind off of it. But I've always wanted to continue going to school, and I wanted to continue learning. So it just kind of made sense. And my husband was going to school to be a doctor as well. He was going for physical therapy. So it just kind of made sense, the timing. And then as time went on and the program actually started getting really difficult. Difficult, I started kind of backing off, going and seeing my mom because I would need to do studies and stuff. And then I are studying and stuff. And then I had like a.
I think maybe about two months or something where I didn't see her as much as I would have wanted to. And then I contacted her and I was like, I'm realizing that the program is kind of sucking my soul and keeping me from you. And that's not the reason that I'm even doing it. So, like, if I. I have to put school to the side, I'm going to do that. And so that's kind of been my trajectory since that point in time. I take time for myself and take breaks and let myself go back to school when I need to or when I'm ready to. But I have had quite a few things that have happened in the course of my time in the PhD program. And so I have had times when I've had to stop going.
And so this was one of those times where I was like, I'm just gonna start committing to coming and seeing you more often. And if I can't do that with the schoolwork, obviously, like I said, I'm gonna just stop going.
[00:19:13] Speaker C: So
[00:19:15] Speaker B: that ended up being kind of like a good agreement between us, because then I ended up being able to manage both. I think I was just putting too much effort into my school stuff, like, completely unnecessarily. You know, my mom, she was a rock star. She did her treatments, she did immunotherapy, obviously, 2020 Covid hits.
And I remember that I wasn't actually sure if I was ever going to be able to hug my mom again. And that was really terrifying at some Point in time, in that Covid time, she ended up having an anaphylactic reaction to her medication. She ended up having to go to the emergency room. And then she. She ended up being fine. But at the emergency room, I went to go and see her and they
[00:20:05] Speaker A: wouldn't let me in.
[00:20:06] Speaker B: They were like, there's only one person that can come in. And at that point in time, we weren't sure if she was going to live. So I was like, I literally will shave all of my hair off of my head and pretend to be my dad if it comes to it. Like, I'm going to see my mom. But thankfully my mom pulled through. My mom, you know, she got better and didn't do any of those immunotherapy, that specific immunotherapy that she was allergic to. And she never did that one again.
And then for those of you that don't know, there's like certain medications for
[00:20:37] Speaker A: your treatment in cancer treatment that you
[00:20:41] Speaker B: can do up until they don't work anymore.
And so then if the treatment no longer works, then it's not like you can just revamp and start using one
[00:20:51] Speaker A: that you had used before.
[00:20:52] Speaker B: Like, it's just not going to work.
So that, I think slowly got me realizing, like, that five year trajectory is probably exactly what we're going to run into unless a miracle happens or unless something terrible happens.
[00:21:09] Speaker C: Right?
[00:21:10] Speaker B: So again, my mom is doing everything that she needs to do.
And then around the time that I got pregnant with my kiddo, my mom and I were talking and she had told me quite a few times that, you know, my family is going to need to recognize that I'm not going to be taking, I'm not going to be doing medication for forever. And my family needs to realize that I'm going to stop doing treatment at some point in time. She had been telling me that for a while and I remember kind of being this like, hopeful, I don't know, like juvenile, like, if I have a kid, then maybe my mom will keep
[00:21:52] Speaker C: trying or something, which isn't fair at all.
[00:21:55] Speaker B: But, you know, it's something that was like in the back of my mind.
And my mom, she had a conversation with me and told me that she
[00:22:05] Speaker C: had planned, she had planned to do this treatment that was like a new type of treatment.
[00:22:11] Speaker B: But then she was gonna have to go be at the doctor's office like five days a week or something like that, and hours and hours of time. And basically she was like, what kind
[00:22:21] Speaker A: of life is that gonna be for me?
[00:22:24] Speaker B: And so she was like, I'm just not gonna do any more medications. I'm just gonna ride this out. And so my mom ended up losing living about four months after my kiddo was born, and she got to meet him, and she got to be with him and hold him and play with him and do things that she would have wanted to do, which I'm very, very grateful.
This is not a thing that I
[00:23:03] Speaker C: talk about very much, or maybe at all.
It's probably been a long time coming,
[00:23:16] Speaker B: but, you know, like, a whole year
[00:23:23] Speaker C: without my mom, and with a new kid, it's just a lot. And I think that I just was, like, choosing not to see how much it was affecting me and how.
How sad it was making me. And then as it got closer to being a year from having lost my mom, it's just all kind of collided together, and I felt like I didn't really have anything to say. I didn't have any way to be helpful for people that are listening to the podcast. I felt like I didn't have a voice. And I think.
I think, like, my mom.
I think my mom is the type of person that she just knew, like, what to say. Even if I was,
[00:24:28] Speaker A: like, really, really
[00:24:29] Speaker C: down on myself or really not sure about what I was doing or, you know, what I'm trying to produce, my mom would be still very supportive.
And I think that she could hear things, you know, and be able to point those out, kind of like a therapist.
So I lost a really big support.
And it's not to say that I'm not supported. I. I am supported. I just feel like, like, her support was different.
It was just a lot. It was a hard, hard time. And then having some financial strains on top of it kind of made me like, I need to buckle down and focus on the job that I do and kind of just get through the season, the difficult season.
And I have.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: Well, like I say, I just really
[00:25:31] Speaker C: don't talk about the this. And so it's good. It's cathartic, you know, get to brag
[00:25:38] Speaker B: about my mom, how much of a
[00:25:40] Speaker C: badass she was, and, you know, like, she really didn't open up. She didn't tell a lot of people, so I didn't talk to a lot of people. I didn't open up about it either. It wasn't my story to talk about.
And I think that that, too, results in distance. And, you know, I have a lot of friends. I have a lot of friends that are very supportive and ask me questions and stuff. And the funny thing is, we're all kind of similar where we all just kind of muddle through and then talk about it when like the worst parts are over.
But I've had people kind of outreaching and making sure that I'm okay, like, because it was coming up to a
[00:26:36] Speaker B: year and I greatly appreciate that.
[00:26:40] Speaker C: And yeah, just been a bummer of a time.
[00:26:51] Speaker A: And I'm
[00:26:54] Speaker C: coming out of it. I'm seeing more clearly and I'm hopeful that I'll be recording again soon.
[00:27:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess it feels like my
[00:27:19] Speaker C: northern star is gone and then I have to find a new one or I have to be it for myself.
And I am really independent and I'm really a go getter and a fighter.
But I think that things happen in our lives that are gonna knock us down a few pegs.
[00:27:44] Speaker B: And I think sometimes when we're therapists
[00:27:48] Speaker C: and things happen, we do regulate a lot better than the general population.
[00:27:58] Speaker B: But then there's still an effect, right? So it's kind of like if you're mixing chemicals together, like, maybe you put
[00:28:07] Speaker C: a little bit less of a chemical
[00:28:08] Speaker B: in there, but it's still going to have a change. It's still going to have an effect.
[00:28:14] Speaker C: So
[00:28:18] Speaker A: I don't know.
[00:28:18] Speaker B: I guess today is just me explaining
[00:28:21] Speaker C: where I've been and who my mom
[00:28:25] Speaker B: was, the fighter that she was.
[00:28:28] Speaker A: I mean, I'm not telling you, like,
[00:28:29] Speaker B: other stories, but she was definitely a
[00:28:33] Speaker C: fighter and someone that I greatly miss. And I know that other people miss her too.
[00:28:39] Speaker B: And I think that that's something that
[00:28:43] Speaker C: we should all want, is to leave
[00:28:49] Speaker B: a ripple when we go, you know, and my mom absolutely did.
[00:28:56] Speaker C: So I'm just trying.
Stop.
Stop bobbing, I guess in the wake
[00:29:09] Speaker A: of all of this.
[00:29:11] Speaker C: And I'm getting there.
I guess I'm getting there.
Thanks for listening.
